Brand Story, Episode 69 — "Personal Branding on LinkedIn"

Steve: I'm Steve Gilman and this is Brand Story, where we help you build stronger, more sustainable brands by sharing insightful conversations with brand leaders, marketers, and professional storytellers. My guest today is Liam Darmody. If you can get on the radar of people that you don't know, then you're attracting opportunity that you don't know exists. Liam is a personal brand strategist that helps founders and executives build their personal brands, and he's also a self-professed LinkedIn nerd. Liam spent two decades scaling go-to-market operations at tech startups before founding Liam's Brand Stand, his consultancy that focuses on helping others establish and build their personal brand on LinkedIn. Hey Liam, welcome to Brand Story.

Liam: Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you.

Steve: Yeah, I think we'll have a blast. We have a friend in common that's been a prior guest, Meita Malik has been on the podcast twice.

Liam: Oh no way. She's doing great. She's a really good friend. We were in the Creator Accelerator program together with LinkedIn, and we have a propensity for doing audio rooms together and we love them, they're a lot of fun.

Steve: I've seen a few of those. So I think it'll be really fun today and fun for our audience to talk all things LinkedIn and personal branding. You know, I'm a brand strategist, but for financial brands and healthcare brands and manufacturers, so this is a little different. You got really into LinkedIn around the pandemic, right?

Liam: Yeah. 2019, my daughter was born and I was on paternity leave. And for the year leading up to that I had been lurking and consuming. I've been on LinkedIn since 2005, but actively paying attention to it from a content standpoint around then. And I swore I was going to take my paternity leave and start creating content, and I still couldn't get over that hump. I was still nervous about it and I was still worried about what my employer would say if they saw that I started posting on LinkedIn, like so many people are. And then a month after, when I went back to work, I said, 'Screw it, I'm just going to do it.' So I started in 2020. And then when the pandemic actually hit, it just took on a life of its own. It became sort of my community. It was the only outlet that I had. I lived in a small house in Northern Virginia with an infant and a toddler and my wife, and I love all of them dearly, but you can imagine, I missed the conversation that happens at an office. Being in a startup world, I'm used to having really vibrant cultures and really sort of relaxed, casual atmosphere where work and play kind of intertwine. So LinkedIn became that for me. And I've been posting there ever since.

Steve: Yeah, you're really prolific, and I think you really have an honest desire to help others learn how to use the space. I doubled down on LinkedIn in 2020, and that's where this podcast was started, because I was tired of not having really good one-on-one conversations. That's sort of my sweet spot. I'm an introvert, I love talking to people one-on-one. So this is all about you today.

Liam: That's awesome, I love it. This year going out on my own, I have all these ideas of what I want to do: build community, build a course, build podcast. I'm an extreme extrovert, but I love conversation, and that's kind of the thing that matters to me the most. So I'm excited to chop it up with you.

Steve: You touched on something about how people sit on the sidelines. We all know there are tons of lurkers out there. But I think a lot of people are afraid to dive in and create content because they think their employer will judge them, or it means they're looking for a job. What advice would you give people who are just scared or hesitant to jump in?

Liam: First, don't be hard on yourself. It's natural. The truth is that a single-digit percentage of LinkedIn members create content on a weekly basis, and only about 25% of people are using this platform on a monthly basis. So you're in the majority. The second thing I would say is try and think about what it is that's holding you back. A lot of people think, 'Oh, my boss is going to think I'm looking for a job.' Like, ask your boss. Just have the conversation. 'Hey, I really want to start creating content on LinkedIn. How do you feel about that? I'm not looking for a job.' You'd be surprised. A lot of bosses will be like, 'Yeah, sure, go ahead. That's great.' The other thing is I always tell people to think about the fact that our employers hire us because our personality is such a big part of what we do. Yes, our skill is important, but they also want to make sure that we're additive to their culture. So why would your employer care if you started talking about the skills that you have on LinkedIn? And on the flip side, there are employers who say, 'Well, if they post on LinkedIn they're more likely to get poached by recruiters.' And my response to that is: that's not your worry. Your worry should be, do they have enough of a reason to stay if they are recruited? Because recruiters are recruiting them regardless. It's not because they're posting.

Steve: I agree. If you'll send an employee to a trade show or out anywhere to talk to anyone, it's fine for them to be on LinkedIn. You want your employees to represent who they are. If they're showing who they are and they're passionate, that says good things about your company, not bad things.

Liam: A lot of employers need to start treating the employee relationship more like sports teams treat athlete relationships, right? They're not going to stay for 30 years, those days are gone. But if they're there for three or four years, you might as well make the most of it. You might as well keep them happy and make them feel fulfilled. The potential value proposition of that from a marketing and employer branding standpoint far outweighs the risk, in my opinion.

Liam: I have had so much good fortune since I started sharing my voice on this platform. I've been invited to podcasts like yours, I've been part of the Creator Accelerator program. I'm a suburban dad who likes to barbecue and collects hot sauce and shoes. And so if somebody like myself can have the type of following and engagement and audience that I've built on LinkedIn, anybody can. Gretzky used to say, 'You miss a 100% of the shots you don't take.' And that's very true. You don't know what exists out there as a possibility or an opportunity if you're not showing up and putting yourself on people's radar. If you can get on the radar of people that you don't know, then you're attracting opportunity that you don't know exists.

Liam: I spent the first 15 years of my career doing sales operations, revenue operations, bunch of different operational roles at startups. And then I got a call from a company that wanted to interview me for a revenue operations position. And the chief marketing officer said, 'You know, you could probably do this job, but I think I have something you might like better. I don't have a job description for it yet. We're talking about this position at the board level, it's really important. We need to basically stand up a recruiting engine that is outbound, because to date we've only been an inbound recruiting company.' And he said, 'With your experience in sales operations and your experience in branding, I think you could help us build a really strong employer brand.' And I was like, 'What are you talking about? I don't have any branding experience.' And he said, 'What are you talking about? You have tons. You do it every day on LinkedIn.' And that's where the light bulb went off for me. This person's been seeing me post just random thoughts on LinkedIn for the last two or three years, and that's given them the confidence to invite me to do a role that if I had applied for, the recruiter would have flat out rejected it because on paper I didn't meet the criteria, but in practice, which I was putting on display, I did. And that is a very powerful thing.

Steve: Your personal brand was speaking volumes. And I think a lot of people struggle with it because they don't like the term 'personal brand,' and to be frank, I don't love it either.

Liam: It is what it is. If you look at Google Trends for 'personal brand' since 2004, clearly people are paying attention. I had a poll go live last week, 94% of people said that they think it's important to build one.

Steve: It's how you show up in the world and the stories you tell by the actions you take. Celine Schillinger from the Creator program calls LinkedIn 'the platform of generosity.' When you think about manifesting serendipity and the platform of generosity, what is the best way to behave once you're on the platform? Because I think that's what intimidates people.

Liam: I typically tell people to create content as if they were writing in a journal that they would share with family, friends, and colleagues. Because you're being comfortable writing as yourself, you're putting your genuine thoughts down, they're from the heart, they're authentic. But you're not going to go overboard. You're not going to go too far down the personal rabbit hole or a political rabbit hole. LinkedIn is special because there's a bit of a self-policing mechanism built into it. People don't necessarily want their boss or their peers or clients to see them being a jackass, and so they don't act that way. I think it's a little bit more of an elevated conversation.

Steve: People behave with courtesy and a touch of kindness and support, and that's rare. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard and be a jackass on other platforms.

Liam: It's the same people that have a problem with Taylor Swift. If you can't just be happy for other people, just go away.

Steve: The fear to look dumb or not know what to say really stops people from their first post. How do you encourage people to get off the sidelines?

Liam: It's almost as if people think that them putting it out there is going to be scrutinized by all of the experts. And the truth is, nobody cares about you that much. People are going about their day, they're busy. They're going to take a split second and see what you write, and if it resonates they might comment, and if it doesn't then they might scroll through. You've got all these people talking about, 'Oh, LinkedIn, you can go zero to 60,000 followers in no time.' And then people are like, 'Well, I put myself out there and I got five reactions and 300 impressions.' Well, of course you did, you're new to the platform. You need to do it consistently for a long period of time to build momentum. I just tell people to ignore it and focus on writing, fall in love with writing and expressing yourself as yourself, and don't worry too much about who engages. The most effective branding is branding that attracts your target audience and detracts the ones that you don't want. I would rather somebody look at my profile and say, 'I don't like his style,' than make me go through all the hoops and then realize they don't like me. You can't be all things to all people.

Steve: Marketing is not a faucet. You don't turn it on and off when you want it. Showing up consistently over time strengthens your case.

Liam: Whether you're a brand or a personal brand, showing up, being consistent, and talking about what you care about creates a presence that people can relate to. So many people have imposter syndrome. I work with vice presidents, senior vice presidents at Fortune 100, Fortune 500 companies, and they are insecure just like a 25-year-old might be. They're like, 'What if somebody thinks I'm an ass?' When you reframe it for them, they're like, 'Oh, maybe I should be putting something out there.' At that level, the amount of knowledge and experience those people have, there's infinite amounts of content you can create. You don't have to overthink it. Put one thought out there every day. Make it short. Just put it out there and see what happens.

Steve: What on LinkedIn peeves you? What do you wish you could say 'cut it out' to?

Liam: LinkedIn is a fantastic place to get organic reach, and wherever there is organic reach, there will always be growth hackers who are trying to hack that growth. And there are hustlers trying to sell you things that will magically achieve the success they've achieved, and they're not telling you the whole picture. They're portraying themselves as authentic people who are not manipulating metrics, but in reality there's more happening behind the scenes. That frustrates me, because if there's any platform where that doesn't belong, it's this one. We are professionals, we bring integrity to our work, we are authentic with our connections, and that's how we should behave on the platform. I don't have a problem with people who genuinely support one another. But there's no quid pro quo. I'm not asking people to pay me or paying somebody else. There's a lot of that on LinkedIn right now. I joke that LinkedIn is, from a social media standpoint, sort of stuck in 2012, 2015, because a lot of that stuff was popular on those platforms back then and now it's migrated over here. I think it's inauthentic and in a way unethical. If you're charging people money to teach them how to do something authentic, then you shouldn't be inauthentic in your own practices.

Steve: We've all been pitch-slapped, where someone does a connection request and then immediately hits you with the sales pitch. And the 'broetry.' They're just things people do, they see other people do it, they start imitating it. And the only thing that works is to be yourself, be consistent, and be patient. Those are the three most important things. Everybody's trying to become Gary Vaynerchuk overnight. Your personal brand stays with you as long as you're alive, so why are you trying to hack it? Just slow and steady wins the race. Put out a post three or four, five times a week if you can, have conversation, meet new people. It's not about how many followers you grew. That happens over time.

Steve: You were invited to LinkedIn headquarters in New York. You learned about collaborative articles and community badges. Is there anything in the new features you'd want to tell people?

Liam: Collaborative articles are basically AI-generated articles that LinkedIn is probably using to train their large language models. They encourage people to contribute their thoughts. If you do that often enough on a specific topic and get enough reactions, you'll get a little yellow badge that says you're a 'Top Community Voice.' Some people say these are participation trophies, and there's an element of truth to that, because I've seen people that have 85 of them, and it's just not possible to be an expert in 85 different things. But they are helpful for people just trying to dip their toes in on the creation front. It's a way to get traction without feeling like you have to create a post from scratch. It's more of a prompt. They're driving a lot of volume to linkedin.com/advice, so if you're showing up there, that's a way to get discovered. Top voice badges are those mysterious things from LinkedIn, the blue one. Nobody understands how many people have those, rumored to be 300 a year. Do I want one? Yes, I totally do. But for me, the conversation on the posts I create are what make LinkedIn my favorite place to hang out online.

Steve: If you aren't trying to game it, then just participate. It's not a competition.

Liam: It's not how many followers you have. Volume is not the indicator of success. It's engagement and authenticity. Having people that actually have your name on their lips when you weren't there, that matters a whole lot more. One of my first clients when I started my business is somebody I'd never spoken to before. He'd been following me for about a year, he was in the web3 space. He ended up being one of my first clients. I asked, 'Why did you decide to work with me?' He's like, 'Because you're the kind of person that I would hang out with.' That's the power of personal branding. We buy from people we know and like and trust. If you can make somebody think, 'That guy seems like somebody cool to have around,' then you're successful at personal branding. You're done.

Steve: What's a piece of advice that's really stuck with you?

Liam: My dad always taught me to be myself and to just trust and try my best. Try my best and trust that things will work out. That is very simple, but it sticks with me, because there's so many things in life that are out of our control. If we just do our best and we show up authentically, then we should have faith that things will work out. There will be peaks and valleys, but if you stay true, you'll typically be okay. There's two quotes that really resonate with me. The first is, 'There are no strangers here, only friends you haven't yet met.' That's by Yeats. That is my motto for life. I treat everybody like a potential future friend. I kind of trust until you break it. And the other is Jefferson's quote about being a great believer in luck: 'I find that the harder I work, the more of it I have.' Luck is certainly a part of life, but the harder you work, the more luck manifests itself. It all comes together: being authentic, doing your best, trying your best, and having faith that something will happen for you.

Steve: You manifest your own luck by having a good attitude and showing up for yourself and others. What's this phase of your life, what would you call it?

Liam: Reinvigorating. I'm having a blast. I'm focusing on my health for the first time in a really long time. I started going to bed after we put our kids down. I used to long for those two hours after they were down as my 'me time.' I started to realize, this is my life, all of it together. There's no separation for me anymore. This is my world now and I'm immersed in it fully. I'm focused on making it the best experience possible while I'm living it, as opposed to looking for some sort of escape.

Steve: If you could give your younger self any advice, what would it be?

Liam: Don't worry so much and don't be in a hurry. Just take it as it goes. Look at every experience as an opportunity to learn something new and potentially discover something that you're good at, as opposed to viewing every new experience as a potential risk or threat. I spent a lot of my earlier years overanalyzing if the move I was making was the right move. I wasn't paying attention to the opportunity in front of me to discover what I was really good at and what I was passionate about. I was trying to fit myself in a box, and that's the worst thing you can do. Get busy living or get busy dying. If you start at 18 and start following your fascination, you're going to find your passion really fast. Focus on being good for other people and doing good work.

Steve: You're showing up for yourself and for other people, and it comes through in your content. Keep being you. Don't try to do anything different because it's working.

Liam: This was great. Thank you for having me. This is the best conversation I've had all week.

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